The Art of Prog

NOTE: Greg Hasbrouck interviewed Sabaton bassist Pär Sundström in June of this year.

Greg: Hi, Pär this is Greg from Prog Power. I appreciate you taking time out to talk to me

Pär: This time you reached me. It’s cool… as I told you we’re making preparations for our ten year anniversary show.

Greg: This Sunday, right?

Pär: Today we are celebrating 10 years. We are making preparations, renting the space, stuff like that. We are not doing it like only SABATON is playing a concert. We’ve booked a quite big outdoor space and two stages and we are making an open-air festival out of it.

Greg: Oh wow… how many people will attend?

Pär: I think 3,000.

Greg: Wow… that’s nice… that’s very nice.

Pär: Yeah that’s pretty good. It’s a small, small city. People are traveling from more than ten countries to see us, so. It will be an international event, our SABATON Ten Year Anniversary Party!

Greg: Sounds like a great party… I wish I was going. Hey, I know you guys were at Sweden Rock and you performed the national anthem… is that right?

Pär: Yeah we did. At Sweden Rock Festival last weekend.

Greg: Is it kind of weird, getting up to do one song like that? Strapping on all your gear, getting in front of a crazy audience and then walking off stage without doing a whole performance?

Pär: Yeah… it is kinda weird. But we didn’t only do the National Anthem. Well all the stuff was rigged so we had, of course, to play at least one song.

Greg: I actually saw you guys at Sweden Rock in 2008 and I have to say it was quite an enjoyable performance.

Pär: Yeah? Cool. It was a very well-attended concert. And I still think we are holding the record of the number of people watching a concert on that stage at Sweden Rock, at the moment.

Greg: The audience was huge for that show… it was impressive. And it seemed like your label was giving you a really big push. I remember they were doing quite a bit of promotion for “The Art of War”.

Pär: Well… that was also arranged by, sort of, ourselves; in cooperation with the festival and also our record label.

Greg: So to begin, I was trying to find out on your website and on Wikipedia, how SABATON was formed, but was unable to find any back story. Can you talk a little bit about how SABATON was formed?

Pär: Well, then I have to go back a little bit, also, before we formed SABATON; because I played with the drummer, Daniel Mullback. There were four long-haired guys in the school and we decided we were the only head-bangers in the school, we should have a band. Everybody who have a long hair must have a band. So, we start a band, a Heavy Metal band but not very many of us knew how to play any instrument. Daniel Mullback knew how to play drums, but that was all. So three of us either hooked up with guitars or bass and somebody picked up a microphone and then we just formed a band and started playing Heavy Metal. And I stayed together with Daniel Mullback a long, long time; even after this first band was laid down forever to rest.

Then I didn’t search for a new band or anything. Somehow, I came along with Rickard (Sunden). He was like, “You and me should start a band. Let’s do it. Let’s party.” We did and we hooked up with my old comrade Daniel Mullback. We found another guitar player, also. We did some rehearsals… no shows. And it sounded like crap. We thought well we aren’t good enough to do anything, but we still thought it was funny.

Then at one party, we found this guy Joakim Broden. He said “I can play church organ, but I still wanna be in a Heavy Metal band”. Well, we don’t have a space for a church organ in the band and I don’t think that’s the kind of music we wanna play. He said, “Well I possibly could play anything with a keyboard, I think”.

Well, whatever. It can’t get any worse. (mutual laughter)

He came to the rehearsal place with the worstest, crappiest keyboard we ever saw. He started playing. It didn’t sound very good. He had skills, absolutely, but we had no idea of the sounds or anything… it was crazy. But, in awhile he came up and showed us, “Well I also wrote these songs, guys.” We realized that this guy could write songs… we couldn’t. He said “OK, let’s play all your songs, now” but we didn’t have a thing.

We were looking for a singer. And for the first time now we had, actually, some songs. When we booked the first gig, we still had no singer, so Joakim said “well, maybe I should try.” He tried and it didn’t sound very well. It sounded like “Whoa! This guy has absolutely no idea what he’s fucking doing”, but it sounds kinda cool, anyway. (mutual laughter)

So Joakim became the lead singer of the band until we found somebody better. And we still haven’t found a better singer. Now Joakim has grown over the past 10 years into a real professional singer. In the beginning he had never touched a microphone, and now he’s a professional singer. So he evolved, as others also evolved. In the beginning, basically none of us knew how to handle our instruments. Now, we know much better. (laughter)

Greg: That’s pretty interesting.

Pär: That’s the story of how we came together. On the first concert that counts as a SABATON concert, one of the guitar players couldn’t play because he hurt his arm. So we asked Oskar Montelius can you do this concert with us. He was fitting perfectly into the band so we decided he is a full-time member. Then we were the full band and that was ten years ago, on the 12th of December.

Greg: That’s a pretty cool story. Let me ask you this… I would expect that almost everyone who’s into Metal is aware of SABATON. However, for those who still may not have heard your sound, how would you describe yourselves?

Pär: Oh. It’s of course very difficult to describe your own music. There’s a lot of people that say it’s Power Metal. And Power Metal can sound very different. I mean, considering what typical people think Power Metal is; high-pitched vocalist and fast double bass drums. That’s not really what SABATON is playing. We don’t have high pitched vocals. It’s more rougher vocals. We also don’t use the double bass drum in every song. So I can say it’s a sort of Power Metal but more rough.

Greg: Looking at the band profiles on your website, it looks like most of the guys, with the possible exception of Daniel, were all raised on 80’s Metal, but I don’t hear a lot of that in your music. Do you hear it? Do you feel those 80’s influences are present or do you think your sound is more modern?

Pär: I think definitely our sound is more modern. I mean, the riffs and the ideas mostly come from kind of old school bands. It is mostly what we listened to, so the inspiration must come from there. But, then, we don’t want to stay in the past; try to copy something that was made twenty years before. We want to make something that is for today. That’s why we try to evolve sound-wise with the choruses and sing-along anthems with several harmonies… all this.

Greg: So let’s talk a little bit about your lyrics. Your lyrics are probably one of the things that define the band. And it’s also kind of unique to the genre, in that you don’t see a lot of bands that play a style similar to SABATON, who have a reoccurring theme to their lyrics. Was the theme of history, specifically of war, something that evolved over time or did you just say, “this fits” and go with it?

Pär: The story how it started was… when we wrote the song ”Primo Victoria”, we were in the studio and we had just recorded the song ”Primo Victoria” musically. We had no lyrics for the song and no idea what to sing about. So, we sit down and we listen to the song, over and over again and we think what do we see? What do we feel? What pictures comes to our minds? Well, something grand, something quite big.

And then we see the movie “Saving Private Ryan” and we said this is exactly what this song is about. We wrote the lyrics, inspired by the movie and then we sit there and think, “Well, this was interesting. It was a cool thing to write about.” Let’s start brainstorming what other events we could possibly write songs about. We came up with lots and lots and lots of ideas. So, OK, let’s do some research and see.

It turned out to be much more fun and interesting than to write the lyrics for, for example the album “Metalizer”, which is basically typical Heavy Metal themes. Just the regular Heavy Metal stuff… let’s party and have a fun time or whatever. The songs “Metal Crew” and “Metal Machine” on the album – they are different but they also represent the kind of SABATON that we want to show people; because we are a party band. We sing of terrible things, like people are fighting and dying for sometimes lost causes. Then we make these songs to remind the people that we are not crazy war heretics. We are in the end a party Heavy Metal band.

Greg: It’s funny. I think you just answered my next question. I was going to ask you about those two songs and ask if that’s the reason they were on those CDs… so thank you. (mutual laughter)

So do you find now, that having this theme or this image almost makes it easier because you can say, “Hey… let’s do something about this event or that time”. Does having that kind of direction make it easier for you? Or do you find it restrictive at all?

Pär: It makes it easier in one way because we know what to write of. But it makes it harder in one way because you cannot just write anything. Because you have to write facts. Also, it makes it more interesting for us because we learn something on the way. And also, it makes it more interesting for the fans because they hear songs about something that is not bullshit; that is not made up stories; that is not ridiculous. It is historical.

Greg: Looking a couple years or CDs into the future, do you expect SABATON will continue with this sort of theme or approach towards your lyrics and your music?

Pär: It could possibly be like that. I mean the human being is made to destroy each other, unfortunately. People will always be fighting and killing each other, so there will always be inspiration for us to write songs. It’s a bad thing but… well.

Greg: Very true. I wanted to ask you about “The Rise of Evil”. The first time I heard the song, Joakim’s unique voice and that big booming chorus singing, “The Reich will rise” I thought to myself, “What are they saying”? I had to go back and read the lyrics. Have you guys ever mistakenly caught any flak from that song, because someone thought it was advocating for something it wasn’t?

Pär: Well, we had some people that thought that we were sympathizing with neo-Nazis. Which is kind of bullshit because, in my opinion, the world should be happy and people should not be evil… they should be on the good side. The evil guys are the bad guys and I would want to be one of the good guys. The Reich was evil; the rise of bad guys. I want to be on the good side. I am not supporting anything like that.

Greg: Of course. But by the same token, I know Germany has a particular sensitivity to what you can and can’t say. You guys write about history and events that affected Germany. Are there any songs that you’ve been told you can’t play, or caught any grief for in Germany?

Pär: Well, people said we should not play “Attero Dominatus” in Berlin because we say, “Berlin is burning.” But, on the other hand, the people in Berlin love the song. The people of Germany love the songs… and so we have never heard any such things as you are not allowed to play this song. In the beginning, the distributor for Germany, for our CDs, always asked for the lyrics to make sure that this was no propaganda or something. But we show him the lyrics and then it’s like, “Cool… let’s make it happen”.

Greg: I see that you and Joakim are credited with writing most of the lyrics. Do you two actually collaborate together or is it you coming up with the lyrics and him writing the vocal line? How does that process work for you?

Pär: It’s more like… I mean first of all we sit down and we make up “What should this song be about?” The music is already written. We sit down and we listen to the song and it’s like, “OK… this is a fast song. This is a powerful, kind of dark song, maybe.” Then it should be dark lyrics about a dark historical event.

So then we look, and think and we research. We look into… I mean, we get our fans to send in a lot of ideas for writing lyrics. We go through them and find, “Oh this is perfect for this song.” Then we say, “OK… maybe you take this part of the song and you do some research and I take this part of the song and I do some research.” Then we sit down together and we say, “This song, now, what do you have on this song? Well I have this fact; maybe this happened.” And I tell the story to Joakim. Then we sit down and make the vocal lines and everything together.

Greg: Wow… that’s a very interesting process.

You guys sound very tight live. Do you guys live close together and have the opportunity to rehearse frequently?

Pär: We have the opportunity a lot, because we have a good studio. We are also playing a lot of concerts live so of course we are learning the songs and getting better and better live. It’s completely different to play a song in the rehearsal room or studio than to play it live. They’re two different things. When we play a song live for the first time, it doesn’t sound as good as for the tenth time, even though we have played it 100 times in the rehearsal room. Practice makes perfect.

Greg: I hear a very big progression between “Attero Dominatus” and “The Art of War”. On “The Art of War” it sounds like you were going for a bigger, more orchestral sound. Does it sound that way because you guys have more time and money, as you become a bigger and bigger band or was that something you were trying to achieve in the studio?

Pär: On “The Art of War” we invited with Peter Tägtgren, as sort of a co-producer with us. He was never producing an album with us in the past. So this time he was interested in also being part of making the sound. The songs that we’d written for “The Art of War”, that were chosen for “The Art of War” are songs that are more based on keyboards than previous albums. That means that they were more orchestral. They were bigger in a way. It’s sort of a coincidence; because all of the songs we’d chosen appeared to be songs with a lot of keyboards.

Greg: And do you expect you’ll continue to work with Peter in the future?

Pär: I’m not sure. I’m not sure. Peter did a good job and he’s a great friend of ours and he lives very close to us, so there’s a big chance. We are constantly in contact and we are having parties together all the time and this. We are good friends, but it is not always that he is home. He is doing a lot of touring with his bands and he’s producing other albums. Sure, we need his help, because he is an expert in some things that we need his help with. I’m sure that he is gonna be involved in some of our albums.

Greg: Let’s talk about you as a bass player. I know you said you got started because you were one of the long-haired guys at your school. What made you gravitate towards the bass?

Pär: Well… this is an interesting story; it’s an interesting question. Because I am not really so interested in all this musical stuff. You know, I love to be playing on stage, I love to perform. I’m not a person whose highest wish is to be the best bass player in the whole world. I just make sure that I am able to play the songs and perform good live. I’m more interested in that. My real role in the band is more like to… progress the band, to make sure that the band grows outside of the musical stuff.

Greg: So you met all these guys when you were going to school and you all sort of gravitated toward each other. Was there something that made you gravitate towards Metal? A record, a performance you saw, something that made you a Metal fan?

Pär: Well I had been listening a lot when I was younger to… two artists very much; one was QUEEN and the other one was Michael Jackson. And from Michael Jackson, I was more interested in the shows. They were entertaining concerts. They were not only music… they were a full show. I liked it. And, I didn’t know so much more. You couldn’t go to YouTube and find ten million of artists. You just looked at what you got at home. And my sister appeared also to be big fans of these bands and I stole her… whatever she had.

When I was old enough to realize what I want to hear, it was when my neighbors came in to me and said, “Hey, you’re old enough now to know what real music is.” He brought me to his room where he had the whole walls covered with IRON MAIDEN posters. He had a big Marshall amplifier and started playing some cool Heavy Metal riffs. I was like, “Whoa… that’s a cool sound.” Then it was like, OK, this is how real music sounds and he played IRON MAIDEN for me. After that, the day after I went down and I bought two IRON MAIDEN albums.

Greg: So the band is from Falun, Sweden. When you think Sweden, your style isn’t the first style you think of. Is there a scene in or near Falun for you to develop a following?

Pär: Well, I need to say a big thanks to HAMMERFALL. They opened the scene. They made melodic Metal once more. When we first started playing, it was Death Metal. Almost every band in the city played Death Metal. HAMMERFALL opened the market for melodic Metal to get a lot of fans. People who discovered HAAMMERFALL also discovered the origins, like HELLOWEEN, the real, older starting of the melodic Power Metal scene. Today, the scene is different than it was then. Now, in Sweden there is bands of every type.

Greg: I read you guys are fans of HAMMERFALL. And you got a chance to tour with them. How was that?

Pär: Yes, of course. At this period of time, it was the first albums of HAMMERFALL. Then we were just impressed by them, because they were growing and they were a big band. So for us, it would be a great opportunity to go on tour with them, to reach new fans, and of course we couldn’t say no to that. At this time, nobody knew who SABATON was in Europe, either. Not HAMMERFALL, not SABATON, not any agency… nobody knew. But it showed when we did the HAMMERFALL tour. Some nights we were equal and some nights we were bigger than HAMMERFALL. It was a big wake up call for a lot of people, I think, to realize that SABATON was such a popular act.

Greg: So you guys are playing ProgPower X in Atlanta in September. I believe this is your second U.S. performance, the first being SXSW. What was that first experience like?

This ends Part One of Greg’s interview with Sabaton bassist Pär Sundström. The complete interview can only be found in the official (printed) ProgPower USA program given to all attendees. If you want to read the entire interview, you have to come to the show!

Final Note: All photos/images used to illustrate this interview are used in compliance with the principles of Fair Use. They illustrate reviews, opinions, and interviews with the band members who created the albums and on whose official web sites and MySpace pages some of these images reside. The photos of the band are borrowed from the band’s official web site. No copyright violations are intended.