The Art of Prog

NOTE: This interview, conducted by Bill Murphy with Crimson Glory guitarist Jon Drenning on August 4th of this year, is a brief follow-up to the interview conducted last month. Enjoy!

Bill: Hi, this is Bill.

Jon: Hey Bill. This is Jon Drenning.

Bill: Hey, Jon, how are you?

Jon: Good, man. I apologize for missing your phone call earlier, but I didn’t, I wasn’t aware you had called me. I was out running errands and my phone didn’t get your call, and I didn’t see it until just now.

Bill: [laughs] That’s no problem whatsoever.

Jon: Alright.

Bill: I appreciate your time. I just have a couple of follow-ups, and one of them I mentioned in an e-mail that my wife said I should have asked you at the time. She’s right. Here’s the question: Given the situation with Roadrunner and Metal Mind and the fact that these albums of yours seem to be illegal bootlegs, how can fans support the music of Crimson Glory right now?

Jon: Well, that’s a good, [laughs] that’s a very good question. But I always tell the fans to do whatever they have to do to get the music they love. I mean, like I said to you earlier, I believe that when you record music, and you give it to the fans, it’s their gift. It’s something they’re given, and it becomes theirs in a lot of ways, and they become very attached to the music. So if you went out and got it, it’s the only one you have right now. But I will say that we are making plans to have all the records re-released properly, through proper channels, with the band’s consent. And so that way we get paid in the process of doing it. But we’re thinking about making a few of the things only available through the band’s website in the future. At least some of the official releases. I mean, in the future, fans will be able to get them, and not have to worry about where they’re getting them from, because everything will be legit.

Bill: So you guys thinking about setting up your own Crimson Glory label or imprint?

Jon: Yeah, well we’ve talked about this before in the past, particularly Jeff and myself have discussed this on several occasions about finding ways to get our material to the fans through the band, so things are done properly, the band is compensated properly. We just want to get a better feeling out of the whole process, because it’s been a sour taste in our mouths for a long time, because of what the record company’s been doing to us. It’s very unfortunate.

Bill: Yeah.

Jon: Because had things not been this way, I’m sure we would have made more records. But why keep making music for somebody to keep stealing from you? It’s very disheartening.

Bill: Yeah.

Jon: And so you find other things to do in life that interest you. I have many interests in life, and I love music. I would prefer to do that. I would prefer to write and record, and sell records more than anything. But it does get very frustrating for myself and the rest of the guys in the band, knowing that every time we do something, somebody’s stealing from us.

Bill: The response from the fans is like, “Wow, we had no idea you guys had this kind of trouble.” So they’re dismayed as well as you are, because now they’ve got all these CDs in their hands, and they’re thinking, “Shit, [laughs] I’m ripping off one of my favorite bands.”

Jon: Yeah, we have no way of telling how many records have been sold, without proper audits and things. But obviously, the band’s longevity is a testament that there must have been lots of records sold over the years for the band to sustain a career as long as we have. We had to be selling records on a continuous basis. I mean, not only to our die-hard fans from years gone past, but meeting new fans that have discovered the band over the years.

Bill: Yep.

Jon: So trying to track all those sales down is going to be a very difficult task, indeed. However, it’s something that has to be done, and we plan on doing that through the proper channels and with the proper legal representation here in the States and abroad.

Bill: Another question I wanted to ask you last time was about you as a guitarist.

Jon: Sure.

Bill: What made you first pick up the guitar? Was it a song, an album?

Jon: [laughs} I would say, as a young boy, I found my mother’s—I must have been five years old or so—I found a little suitcase, an old suitcase full of 45 records. And there was just lots of albums from like, Elvis Priestley and The Beatles, my mother was a big Beatles fan, big Elvis Priestly fan. So that was probably what really got me excited, putting those 45 records on a turntable and learning how to play those records listening to the music that came out of this little old speaker.

Bill: [laughs]

Jon: And then I discovered LPs, and my mother really turned me on to rock and roll at a very young age. She was a rock-and-roll hippie.

Bill: Yeah. [laughs]

Jon: And that was our religion, music. Around the house, every night was a party. That’s basically what the hippies did. Every night was a reason to party.

Bill: [laughs]

Jon: So I went to bed every night with Santana playing in the background, Grand Funk Railroad, Jimi Hendrix and The Doors, and like Three Dog Night, and Robin Trower. A lot of cool ‘70s, you can call it acid rock, whatever you want to call it. And still, it was soon thereafter, I became a percussionist. I started banging on things, as a young boy would, sort of banging on the pots and pans and desks with your spoons and forks and knives.

Bill: [laughs]

Jon: And I wanted to play drums at first. It was when I got into grade school, I started, I went to a concert. My mother took me to a rock concert at age five. My first concert was, let me think, Joe Cocker.

Bill: Wow, was it really? [laughs] Yeah.

Jon: Yeah. Joe Cocker was my first concert at age five in Cleveland, OH. And then soon thereafter I started going to see other concerts, the list is endless. She took me to see Ted Nugent or we went and saw KISS or went and saw Peter Frampton or Cheap Trick, Robin Trower.

Bill: Yep.

Jon: A lot of those bands from that era. It wasn’t until I saw KISS though, that I really got excited about playing guitar. Seeing Ace Frehley shred his guitar, have his guitar have fire and smoke flying out of it.

Bill: [laughs]

Jon: That was pretty impressive. I was about 12 years old at that time, I was about 12, it was about 1976. So I was pretty, at a very strong, impressionable age at the KISS shows, so in some ways I think they had a big influence on me, maybe even the image of Crimson Glory. It was probably Dynasty, right around Dynasty, it was right after that. I saw them on the Dynasty tour the first time.

Bill: Yeah, that was probably ‘79ish or so.

Jon: Yeah, yeah.

Bill: You’re mentioning a wide variety of guitarists here, from Mark Farner to Ace Frehley to Robin Trower. A lot of these guys, like Mark Farner, are not necessarily known for being a great guitarist. But they created great riffs and cool music.

Jon: Those are the musicians that their music inspired me. As far as guitar players that really inspired me, it wasn’t until, it was Jimi Hendrix, listening to “The Star-Spangled Banner.”

Bill: Oh yeah, from Woodstock.

Jon: That was my first real experience to electric guitar, and it really blew me away. I had, my mother owned the Woodstock album, it was like the triple-gated album. I remember it folding open really big. And I remember playing “The Star-Spangled Banner” all the time, because I was just blown away that that was “The Star-Spangled Banner.” I used to sing it, we used to go to school and sing it.

Bill: Yeah. [laughs]

Jon: But to hear an electric guitar play it like that with that kind of feedback and distortion and craziness, it was like, it just blew me away. It was just like, otherworldly. That’s when, I really thought Jimi Hendrix was from another planet, because it was nothing like what we sing like in school.

Bill: I think he thought he was too. [laughs]

Jon: Yeah. And then soon after, I discovered Eddie Van Halen, he was a big influence on me early on. Of course, Randy Rhoads, he was one of my idols. I loved Randy Rhoads’ style of playing. He was so fluid. Uli Roth is like the grand master to me. He’s like the Gandalf of metal. He’s like the wizard to me. Uli Roth is probably one of the greatest, most unappreciated guitar players in history. To hear him, and to watch him play, I had the good fortune of actually seeing him play in Switzerland once, on the G3 tour, and Dave Van Landing, who was the Crimson Glory vocalist for the Strange and Beautiful tour, he was singing with Michael Schenker, and so I was invited as a guest to get to hang out with Uli for the first time. And I remember walking up to Uli Roth and telling him what a fan I was of his, how impressed I was with his style. And then when he found out what band I was in, he was like, “Oh, well, you’re not so bad yourself, Jon.”

Bill: [laughs]

Jon: I was like, “Well, let’s don’t fool each other. What you do is like, beyond my capabilities, trust me.” So I was always so blown away with Uli’s style. And people like Yngwie, of course, who I later discovered. But to me, Uli was the guy who really inspired me more. I mean, Yngwie is a fantastic guitar player, but I liked Uli’s combination of blues and classical mixture. To me, Uli was cosmic. He was a cosmic guitar player. I loved that. The other guitar player who really inspired me is Michael Schenker. I love Michael Schenker’s melody, and I love his tone, I love the way he phrases, just so beautiful and eloquent on the guitar. To me, he’s like the Eric Clapton of metal. And then you have, and I’ve really, really appreciated Neal Schon from Journey. I love Neal Schon’s style. I love the way he made the guitar sing. I loved his sense of melody and his tone as well. I always thought he had great, memorable guitar solos. So you can see, from Jimi Hendrix, to Eddie Van Halen, to Randy Rhoads, and Uli Rock, and Michael Schenker, and Neal Schon is where Jon Drenning got most of his influence from.

Bill: That reminds of the your solo on the extra CD on the Astronomica album. You rip a killer solo. I forgot which song that was.

Jon: I think that solo is off the song “Dragon Lady.”

Bill: Yep, that’s it.

Jon: Yeah, it was inspired by Randy Rhoads too.

Bill: The guitarists you mention have a wide style, a wide range. In your own playing, do you find it harder for you to play just ripping stuff, where your fingers are flying? Or do you find it more difficult to play slower, more emotional solos?

Jon: Well, it’s always more difficult to play less notes than it is to play more notes.

Bill: [laughs] Yeah.

Jon: It’s the same thing for drummers as well. A lot of drummers can really have amazing chops, but you take away all those chops and strip them down to just the beat, and then they’re lost. Same thing is for guitar players. It’s not the notes that makes the music, it’s the space between the notes that makes the music.

Bill: Yeah, very well put. I used to be friends with Ian McDonald of Foreigner. And he and I used to have discussions about the best drummers. And I would say, “Neil Peart or Mike Portnoy.” And he would say, “You know who the best drummer is, Bill?” I’d say, “No, who?” And he’d say, “Ringo Starr.”

Jon: Oh wow.

Bill: I said, “You’re shittin’ me. The guy’s a metronome.” He said, “That’s exactly what a drummer’s supposed to be.” [laughs]

Jon: Yeah. Well, sometimes Ringo Starr got a bad rap, because he wasn’t that accomplished. But I listen back to the old Beatles records, I hear some very interesting drum parts that are very unorthodox and different than what people, what most drummers would have played, just straight. And what Ringo did was very different. I’m not sure if it was Ringo, mainly, doing it, or if it was Paul McCartney’s influence on Ringo. A lot of times, Paul McCartney played drums on a lot of those old songs. Paul was a very accomplished musician. He played a lot of different instruments with the band. But as far as drummers go, I’ve always liked drummers that had a just great feel, great pocket, guys that can just lay down a groove that like nobody’s business. Having all the extra flash and chops is really cool when applied appropriately. Neil Peart’s one of those guys who can really play a lot of notes and still have a groove and still keep you in the pocket because it never goes away. I’m always impressed with that, with Neil’s ability to do that. For guitar players, same thing. As a young boy, I was really impressed with the guys that played fast, like Yngwie Malmsteen. But as you become more of a seasoned guitarist and musician, you start discovering that less notes can be just as much or more than a lot of notes. And it takes more talent and more grace and more skill to play with less notes and make it sound so well. Which is where guitar players like Eric Clapton, or I love Michael Schenker, with his phrasing, he can blow as good as anybody, but I just love the notes he doesn’t play, and the phrasings that he puts in.

Bill: Oh yeah.

Jon: That’s what gets me turned on, to hear guitar players. Give me somebody that sings me a melody that I can’t forget. I always come back to that: The melody must sustain the song. Attitude can only go so far.

Bill: [laughs] Yeah. I’ve got two questions, then I’ll let you go, and one of them happens to be about guitarists. Those were some phenomenal musicians, no doubt about it. What guitarists nowadays would you recommend that a new guitarist listen to?

Jon: Well, I have to be completely honest with you, Bill. I haven’t been listening to too many guitar players. When you find some of your favorites that have been so good to me, I appreciate so much, I probably just stuck with those, with the best of the best.

Bill: Yeah, I agree with you.

Jon: I mean, there’s a lot of great guitar players out there that have a lot of great chops. There’s a lot of guys out there that have a lot of good technical ability, but I still, when I want to listen to guitar players, I’ll go back to some of my favorites. I’d rather listen to a Neal Schon solo record than a lot of the guitar players today.

Bill: This is the last question I’ll ask you. It has to do with how you’ve grown over the years. You’ve been doing this for 25 years. In that time, what would you say you’ve made the biggest improvement in? Is it the guitar playing, the producing, just knowing the business side of things? What would you say is your biggest improvement?

Jon: Well, as a musician, you want to learn from your past mistakes and you try to get better in all areas, and all facets of being a musician, and a guitar player and a businessman. But I really like the production end of things. I’ve learned a lot in the studio as a producer. I’ve learned a lot about what songs you can use and what songs don’t need, and how to say more with less. And so, as a producer, I think I’ve grown more than anything. Also, my ability to communicate with others, other musicians, because when I was younger, I was so headstrong. I mean, it was my way, or I would just close my ears.

Bill: [laughs] Yeah.

Jon: I could be very difficult as well in the band. Midnight and myself, we always were going back at each other all the time, because we had very distinct ideas sometimes, and we would go back and forth, what was the right way. Most times we would find a way to make them both work. But nowadays I’m more open minded to others’ ideas, and to try other people’s suggestions and other people’s ideas than I was when I was younger. So in that regard, I think I’m a better band member now than ever, too.

Bill: Yep. Well, I definitely appreciate your follow up. And as I mentioned in an email, I was really moved by our interview the other day. It seems like you ought to be writing some sort of inspirational tome or book, something. You’ve got a lot to say that I think could help a lot of people.

Jon: Well, I know that with the 25th anniversary of Crimson Glory coming up, we had discussed about like, doing an autobiography on the band and about a lot of the interesting stories behind the band.

Bill: Oh yeah.

Jon: There’s a lot of questions about how things got started and what influenced us and stuff, and how we all came together. We discussed some of these things in the interview, but there’s just so much more still to tell. And there’s a lot of wonderful stories to tell.

Bill: I think you should. That’d be a book I would love to read, that’s for sure.

Jon: Well, we’ll see. Yeah. I think that would be really nice. We’ll see. 25th anniversary, we’ve got a lot on the table, a lot on the plate right now that we want to do, so we’re trying to like, formulate a game plan. We have a lot of different products we want to release, there’s a couple we discussed, re-releasing a live DVD of Midnight back in the heyday that’s never been properly released, in high-definition format and excellent sound quality. We have a new DVD we’re planning on doing at ProgPower this year. We have a lot of unreleased material that we want to put on the re-releases. We have new re-masters or properly re-mastered, not those versions from Poland.

Bill: [laughs] Yeah.

Jon: [laughs] And these are re-masters that I, myself, oversaw.

Bill: Yep.

Jon: With the original mastering engineer. So those are done the proper way, and they sound, I have to say, they do sound amazing. They sound as good today as they ever did, and much better. We made it much warmer and richer and fatter overall. I think people are going to be very pleased with the sound.

Bill: Oh man.

Jon: Obviously, and the icing on the cake is a new Crimson Glory record, and that’s something that Jack and myself have discussed on several occasions, and that’s really where the band wants to go. We see ourselves going forward with new material, and we have a bunch of ideas and how we wanted to approach that, and that’s something that we plan on doing for sure. So I think the fans, it’ll be worth the wait. They’re going to get something really special coming up here.

This ends Bill’s follow-up interview with Jon Drenning. Remember: To read the entire interview (excluding this follow-up), you need to attend ProgPower USA X and get the official printed program!